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Talk:Nagi
Though the main theory is that Nagi is Naga reincarnated, I must disagree. I think that she might me something rather different. I think that they are, indeed, two completely different people. My theory is that Nagi is actually a relative of Naga’s; perhaps his sister. I get this from their names, although, because of her similarity to Tiki, she might be his wife, and Tiki’s mother. (Though, knowing relationships among royals, she could very well be both.) Opinions pleas, I want your theories. :Her ending title is "Holy Avatar" in the localized versions and "Divine Dragon King's Incarnation" in the Japanese versions (Ours is more subtle I think), and in various file and page names on the offical Japanese site, Fire Emblem World, they refer to her as "Naga" (as noted when I added her artwork image, which the file name was "s_naga", while her Japanese name is romanized as Nagi on the same site, I checked.)--Otherarrow 21:45, 29 May 2009 (UTC) I gotta say the evidence is more compelling that she is the reincarnation of Naga, rather than a weird incest relative... --Semajdraehs- any replies to my Talk page 21:47, 29 May 2009 (UTC) Ok, you win... Wow... Now I feal ignorent... Another Theory I actually have another theory about the origin of Nagi. That she is still Tiki. Their avatars, appearance, and dragons incredibly similar. My theory is that the 'unknown dimension' that Gotoh sent Marth and his elite party to is the future. Gotoh told Marth (after completing Ch. 24) that Tiki is not actually dead, but only put back to sleep. Thus, if Marth was sent to the future, that would explain why a older looking Tiki (Nagi) is found in a coffin, waiting to Finish what she started. She says that she recognizes the name Gotoh. She also claims to have lost her memory, which is why she may not recognize Marth or his army. As for the "Nagi" name, perhaps that was what Gotoh told her her new name was, or something like that. Thoughts? - Count Caterpie :This really isn't something up for debate. Nagi being Naga's reincarnation might as well be confermed. As stated on the page and on this talk page, the evidence points to her being Naga. Also, if Nagi is Tiki, how would Medeus recognize her? Those two never directly met, while Naga and Medeus did. As for your future theory, Gotoh said he was sending Marth to another world, and nothing said or shown seems to indicate it was the future.--Otherarrow 00:48, 23 August 2009 (UTC) ::Not as well confirmed as the spelling of 'conf'i'''rmed. I have yet to win the final battle, so I was not aware of Nagi's meeting with Medeus. He didn't have to say he was sending Marth to the future, he didn't even say where he was sending him at all (other than the name 'Alterspire'), thus my future theory is just as valid as an alternate dimension. --- Count Caterpie 21:30, 23 August 2009 (UTC) :::The intro text to chapter 24x calls it a "alternete world" and in the chapter before Gotoh says he is sending Marth into a "unseen dimension". The phrases in quotes are the terms used in the game script.--Otherarrow 22:03, 23 August 2009 (UTC) ::::I know that's what he said. You act like I didn't read that. --- Count Caterpie 23:41, 23 August 2009 (UTC) :::::I acted like that because what you said, that he did not say where he was sending them, implied that you didn't. I ment no offense. Anyway, I'm stopping here, this does not seem to be getting anywhere constuctive.--Otherarrow 23:58, 23 August 2009 (UTC) :::::Well he didn't say where he was sending them. What he said 'alternate world' and 'unseen dimension' are incredibly vague. Its like putting somebody one a plane and saying 'Im sending you to an another country'. They never specifically said where they are sending you. I rest my case. --- Count Caterpie 00:26, 24 August 2009 (UTC) You ''Rest your case... lame --Semajdraehs- any replies to my Talk page 00:57, 24 August 2009 (UTC) :Thanks for adding virtually nothing to the discussion --- Count Caterpie 01:23, 24 August 2009 (UTC) ::I said I was done, but I decided to add this last post. This discussion is pretty pointless, and would have already been resolved if not for your stubbornness. Your theory, that Nagi is Tiki, is incorrect since all the evidence points to her being Naga, and in game dialogue disproves the "future" idea, yes while "unseen dimension" and "alternate world" are vague, I can't see how they could be interpreted as the future of the world the party is already in. To use your example, what your saying is like if someone said "I'm sending you to another country" but the plane ended up taking you to the country you already where. Also, you are using "I rest my case" incorrectly.--Otherarrow 09:08, 24 August 2009 (UTC) :::You don't have to be so rude about this. Im simply stating what I believe could be a possibility. You can believe in it or not, but you don't have get so angry. --- Count Caterpie 17:48, 24 August 2009 (UTC) ::::I was trying to not be rude, nor was I really angry. Like I said, there is really no place for such theories, as the game leaves a number of hints towards it (even if some of the localized ones are a little bit more vague about it), and the wiki page itself points them all out. I just find it kinda odd that people are leaving theories when reading the page would show most, if not all, of what is known about Nagi and who she is. What's the point in suggesting theories on this talk page, as reading the page it is connected to will disprove them? OK, now I am just rambling, sorry about that.--Otherarrow 20:50, 24 August 2009 (UTC) Just because Nagi is referred to as the "Divine Avatar" or (the less subtle title) "Divine Dragon King's Incarnation", doesn't mean that she isn't Tiki. According to Nagi's end title, we can conclude that Nagi is not Naga. Nagi is an "avatar" of Naga or (in the Japanese version) reincarnation of Naga. This doesn't prove that Nagi is Tiki, but it also doesn't prove that Nagi isn't Tiki either. Nagi and Tiki do have different pesonalities, but something could have happened after Marth's army "killed" Tiki that caused Naga to become some part of Tiki. I wouldn't be surprised if Naga had some way to reincarnate himself after dying. However, whatever Nagi is, Nagi definitely is not the same as Naga, but his reincarnation. And as for Count Caterpie's evidence, there is actually some good evidence for a future Tiki, or something. I don't think the game developers made them look similar on accident. That doesn't prove they are the same necessarily, because Nagi could be some relative of Tiki's, like the other theory about the Dragon Queen above this one. However, it wasn't an accident that the developers made Tiki and Nagi look almost exactly the same. Also, the game developers would not have had Gotoh say that Tiki isn't dead, but only asleep, if they weren't trying to drop a hint. This could possibly have been put in the dialogue to fill a plothole so Tiki can be alive in the sequel (if she is in the sequel, I haven't played it, so I wouldn't know). However, they didn't just put Gotoh saying that so the player wouldn't feel bad about killing Tiki or something. I think Count Caterpie's theory is pretty good. It explains the events quite well. I would like to point out that Count Caterpie's theory does not state anywhere that Nagi is not a reincarnation of Naga, and so the Nagi/Naga reincarnation theory doesn't disprove Caterpie's theory. I do agree that Nagi is some kind of reincarnation of Naga (that is blatantly obvious and had been confirmed). However, nothing I've seen anywhere so far says that Nagi and Tiki aren't the same person. I'm interested to know if there is more evidence about this. -Marth :You agreed that Nagi was at least Naga's reincarnation, well, sorry to break it to you, but that admition broke your entire arguement. You see, Tiki is Naga's daughter and was already born when Naga died, in fact, Naga died shortly after putting Tiki into her deep sleep. I don't think one's reincarnation can be born when they are alive. As for the "Naga became part of Tiki" thing, that just makes no sense to me.--Otherarrow 23:26, September 6, 2009 (UTC) ::That's true, I didn't elaborate. What I meant by "became a part of Tiki" is that it is possible that at some point after Tiki "dies", that Naga could take use of her body. The definition of "avatar" is "embodiment" or "manifestation". It's possible that Nagi has Tiki's body and Naga's "spirit" or whatever you want to call it, which could explain why she is named Nagi (it might just be a coincidence, but it appears that Nagi is a mix of the names Naga and Tiki). Naga was dead when Marth kills Tiki, and so it is possible for something like that to happen. It never says anywhere when Naga is "reincarnated" or whatever. ::Even so, the thought you pointed out to me, and rightly so, does not disprove the rest of the argument. If you see other errors, by all means, tell me. However, my point is that Count Caterpie's argument does not conflict with the popular theory. Nothing about his theory says that Nagi can't be a reincarnation of Naga. -Marth :::Actually, I thought it did say Naga is reincarnated as Nagi, well, sorta "Revived Divine Dragon King"? "Divine Dragon King's Incarnation"? Yes, they do not say it outright, but since Naga is both dead at this point and male, I can't think of anything Nagi (alive and female) can be but his reincarnation. Also, nothing in game really suggests the "Tiki is Nagi" theory other than their appearance, which could be come from the fact that they are related. Also, Naga is not shown to be able possess anyone, even with the Naga tome (in the Jugdral setting). The only dragon characters who are shown to possess anyone are Loputous, even then only with the Loputous tome and someone in the right bloodline, and Holsety, who, unlike Loputous, was alive and made a pact directly with his host. As for the "Nagi is Naga+Tiki" thing, that seems to be concidence, the name Nagi was likely picked out because it is a variation of Naga.--Otherarrow 02:13, September 7, 2009 (UTC) ::::Glad we could come to an agreement on that. There really is no proof of his theory, but there is no proof against it yet. It is an interesting theory and I'm interested to see if it's true. -Marth Just something that caught my attention. There might not be any evidence that Naga was ever male, unless they referred to Naga as a "he" somewhere that I didn't notice. The only allusion is Naga's title of Divine Dragon King, however there is a chance that it could mean "Lord" instead. In any case, I think this alternative theory of Nagi being derived from Tiki might be worth mentioning in the main article, as long as it is well written. The Nagi being Naga theory has much more evidence to support it, but in the end it's simply just a theory as well (at this current point in time). I mean, it would be nice to include both sides of the story. Aveyn Knight 09:41, September 7, 2009 (UTC) :Naga is not male? But don't they refer to him in FE3 as Tiki's father? The FE3 script over at Serenes Forest has this: "The king’s fear of Chiki’s power was that of a loving father’s." Then again, he appeared as a female in FE4. As for the alternative theory, I really can't add it myself in a nonbiased way, I feel most of the evidence can be written off as either coincidence or a side effect of the "Nagi/Naga" connection. Unless you were refering to the name part, I am not really sure what you ment by "derived".--Otherarrow 12:09, September 7, 2009 (UTC) ::In that particular line, they just used "parent" in the original script. I'm not completely sure about how Naga is reference elsewhere, since I had already assumed Naga was male when I started working (due to his title and his "appearance" in the opening demo). ::As for "derived", I was just referring to the part about Nagi possibly being a reincarnation or different version to Tiki. I was just thinking it was worth mentioning (even if it's incorrect - in which case, we could mention why it's incorrect) since it's a semi-popular theory, probably more so than Naga=Nagi, since most of the evidence for that is in the code or the Japanese version. Aveyn Knight 15:25, September 7, 2009 (UTC) I was thinking that Nagi is the Divine Dragon queen. I'm not really sure if Nagi is Tiki's relative because in Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon, I revived Tiki using the Aum staff and then I tried to have Tiki talk to Nagi, but Tiki can't talk to Nagi. Written by: Max Lishko Tiki is Nagi in the future. Notice that when recruiting Bantu in the village, Bantu says that Tiki is the last of the Naga so if he says that tiki is the last that means Nagi can't be a different person because if so, Bantu would not have said that tiki was the last. Nagi, is a divine dragon= tiki 100%. Nagi and Tiki have the same pterodactyl tiaras on their heads, which is prroof that they are the same person but in different times. They have the same colored hair and same pointy ears. Also the same pink clothes. Remember marth says that he saw weird prints in the fane of raman, he also saw the same prints on nagis coffin in alterspire. This proves nagi= tiki. The fane of raman is the alterspire in the future. At the entrance of fane of raman there are stairs, in the entrance of alterspire there are stairs too. Both places have identical hallways. Fane of raman probably collapsed eventually and it was rebuilt and called the alterspire. Im not sure but both places could be in the same location on'' fire emblem: shadow dragon's'' map.- This was submitted by Max Lishko, the ultimate game champion. :That is some nice theory making. But you fail to take in account the possibility that Bantu is wrong, which he is, as Gotoh and Xane are both reveled to be Divine Dragons/Naga tribesmen in FE3. The similar tiaras could be due to the fact that they are both royalty. (Similar tiaras, but not the same. Nagi's appears to be larger) The pointy ears is a Manakete trait, and the similar hair is due to the fact that they are related. (Note that I said similar again, Nagi's hair is darker than Tiki's) As for the similar symbols at the Alterspire (a tower) and the Fane of Raman (a temple), the two locations were likely made by the same civilization for similar purposes. The chances of them being the same place are rather slim, as Gotoh outright states the Alterspire is in another world. (and as I pointed out above, "another world" does not mean "same world in the future").--Otherarrow 15:18, April 24, 2010 (UTC) Thanks i really understand that now (i feel kinda pissed) - M.L(Max Lishko) Wait! I'm not giving up! Gotoh mentioned that tiki was not dead but asleep. When marth wakes up Nagi, Nagi says- have you woken me from my slumber?-or someting like that. Tiki was asleep, so probably explains why nagi mentioned slumber. Since tiki "died" on your team she ended up in acoffin to sleep. Or im wrong she probably rests in nagi. But heres something that proves me wrong- i revived tiki with aum and then i had 2 of them- tiki and nagi, proving me wrong.-Max Lishko P.s.- Tiki and nagi can't talk to each other.- Max Lishko P.s.- first i thought tiki was nagis daughter.- Max Lishko P.s.- ARENT you the guy otherarrow who knows alveyn knight? ::Gotoh's referencing Tiki being asleep as opposed to dead is possibly justification for her to be alive in FE3, where she has a fairly major role. As for Tiki and Nagi not talking to each other, aside from Tiki expected to be dead when Nagi is recruited, not every related character has a optional conversation (Gotoh does not talk with Xane or Tiki, Ogma does not talk with Nabarl, etc).--Otherarrow 09:05, May 21, 2010 (UTC) Could you please answer my P.s. questions? When I referred myself to a game champ, i meant i was good at beating the game, not making up theories. At first i thought tiki and nagi were two different people, but then i changed my mind...Also, Count Caterpie thought tiki and nagi were the same person and his competetor gave up and got owned by his theory. Thank you very much but i won't change my mind. I Sorry i got ripped off and stopped on "I." i'm back now, as i was saying, i would change my mind and agree with you if in clearly knew what you were talking about.- M.L Wait, im taking you wrongly, maybe youve never heard of a guy with a username- alveyn knight. Maybe i mixed it up, youve heard of semajhdreads not alveyn knight. Sorry for changing the subject... Oh, tiki doesnt have to be dead when nagi is recruited. You could use aum to revive tiki before you recruit nagi. If you write back to me i will read what you wrote but i will not right back. This current message will be my last. Farewell and sorry. It was really nice knowing you- otherarrow.don't forget to answer those other p.s. questions you missed. Sorry last message- what is under the manaketes' hoods? Answer please. oKAY, now its bye.- M.L P.S- i left some messages for you on the michalis conversation. :Umm...I know who Aveyn Knight is. He knows more about this than I. That is irrelevant though. Let's begin. Count Caterpie did not "own" anybody. He just sorta left the conversation. No offense to the Count. But this is also irrelevant. Tiki has to be dead to get to Chapter 24X. Yes, you can revive her, but that does not change the fact she is presumed dead by the plot at this point. I've already gone over this Tiki/Nagi thing countless times on this one page alone, and I feel I am starting to repeat myself. So unless I or the other major users feel that any other important issues on the subject are raised, I will be ignoring/removing (depending on comment size) any comments on the matter. My apologizes.--Otherarrow 10:28, May 23, 2010 (UTC) No, i meant that Count Caterpie said tiki AND nagi are the same, so did i. Semajdreahs said that they were two different people, just like you. Later Count Caterpie won with the wrong theory- Semajdreahs surrendered to him not knowing that he had the right theory and count caterpie had the wrong one. P.S.-''' VERY IMPORTANT PLEASE ANSWER!'''- Remember the chapter 2 of fire emblem shadow dragon? Yeah, before you really start the level, enemies pop out of the castle, one of the enemies is the thief class. before you start the level, he stops and stands on a village, destroying it, what is inside that impossible-to-get-in village?! that previous sentence written by M.L. :As far as I can tell, you don't get anything. No item, no money, no character. Aveyn Knight 17:00, June 2, 2010 (UTC) Is there a cheat to get in that village?-M.L. :I don't think so. I checked the game code and I don't see any event that could be linked to the destroyed village. Even if you could enter the village, most likely nothing would happen. Aveyn Knight 20:41, June 2, 2010 (UTC) I would think the destroyed village was just to make an example, to teach the player the special abilities of thieves, even if they stink at fighting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PREVIOUS SENTENCE-M.L. Also, have you ever tried looking up a cheat that lets you restore broken villages (ruins)?-M.L. P.s.- Ouch! My theory is proved wrong! Even Otherarrow, Count Caterpie, maybe Aveyn Knight, maybe Semajdreahs- they all say my theory is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nagi is Tiki's future self used to replace her when she was killed. Tiki must have this power because of her divine dragon/princess status or something along those lines. :Except in New Mystery, Tiki and Nagi coexist. This also doesn't explain why Medeus recognizes Nagi. (Tiki was born, and soon after sealed, after Medeus was ordered to guard the Earth Dragon seal. When Medeus was revived, the process wasn't "complete" so Medeus couldn't leave Doluna Keep. There is no way Medeus would be able to know Tiki and no implication that they have ever met anyway.)--Otherarrow 20:37, October 31, 2010 (UTC)